Morning Reads for Wednesday, July 27, 2016

Ed is out stalking Michael Phelps and about in Rio for the Olympics, so I’m filling in today.  It’s also the day after the run-offs.  You can find the results to your favorite races here.

Here:

There:

Yonder:

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MattMD_actualgt7348bWill DurantgcpDave Bearse Recent comment authors
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Noway2016
Noway2016

Roswell officer fired for flying Confederate flag? Seriously? Does the 1st Amendment mean nothing any more? She’ll obviously be reinstated and sue the dog-squeeze out of the city. Gotta love the Goebbels-like Speech Police. Whatever happened to “I do not agree with what you have to say, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it.” To rob a line from Lynyrd Skynyrd, “Free Speech is Gone Like the Wind…”

John Vestal
John Vestal

Not a 1A issue.

Noway2016
Noway2016

Enlighten us then, John. What kind of issue is it? Can’t wait to hear this rationalization.

John Vestal
John Vestal

The First Amendment prohibits government or its agents from taking any punitive action against a citizen or entity due to speech or expression (with some exceptions:, inciting violence, suborning a crime, etc).

Roswell waas not taking action as a government agency. They acted as an employer addressing the conditions for employment with one of their employees.

You’re welcome.

Noway2016
Noway2016

The city government of Roswell was not acting as a government. Hmmmm…
Let’s see how that defense works in the upcoming court case.

John Vestal
John Vestal

By your logic a meter reader for Cobb County Water should be able to tell their supervisor to GFH without fear of losing their job because he’s a government employee. *BZZZZZ* Thanks for playing. Enjoy the year’s supply of Rice-A-Roni.

BTW, I’m neither advocating nor condoning the action they took. Sounds like they pulled a mountain/molehill move. I’m merely pointing out it’s an issue of employment law, not 1A.

Noway2016
Noway2016

The cop didn’t insult her supervisor, John. She displayed a flag at her home. Nice try but irrelevant. A city’s employment handbook doesn’t trump Free Speech. Like I said, let’s see how this plays out in court, ’cause that’s where this is headed barring a settlement for the fired cop.

Saltycracker
Saltycracker

I don’t think it is a 1A issue either and it probably was violations of the conditions of employment, but I question that the flag is the single issue for immediate dismissal.
I, saw your response after posting, doubt it is a molehill unless the chief overreacted and didn’t confer with city attorney……there is the rest of the story………I hope….

Dave Bearse
Dave Bearse

I would expect you’re correct about single issue. The Atlanta Fire Chief’s book didn’t get him fired, though in his case it was stuff related to the book, maybe not the case (something flag-related) with the Roswell officer.

PM
PM

See Article 1, Paragraph V of the Georgia Constitution.

Saltycracker
Saltycracker

There is something not right about the article. Why immediate dismissal, what is the exact policy ? As a proud descendant of men that fought on both sides it is incredulous that she didn’t know the flag in her yard was controversial and that alone should make her job requirement of awareness suspect. But just the flag in her yard an immediate dismissal ? There has to be more to this than the inflammatory reporting.

Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

Hate to side with Noway, but this is a First Amendment issue. The Roswell Police Department is a government entity. It does not matter that they “acted as an employer,” they’re still the government. This officer was acting in her capacity as a private citizen by flying a Confederate flag outside her home. Were she flying the flag from her squad car while on duty, Garcetti v. Ceballos says she does not have First Amendment protection and can be fired or otherwise disciplined. However, when she is acting as private citizen, she does have First Amendment rights. In Pickering v.… Read more »

Noway2016
Noway2016

Day—-ammm! Is it snowing in Miami right now? Did a 725 pound pig just fly by my window? I’m doing a screen shot just to PROVE that on at least one occasion Drew and I actually agreed! Too funny! Being serious, this doesn’t pass my layman’s legal smell test. Or common sense as I define it. I know on most things discussed here, I am in the minority as far as my opinions go. Glad Drew put up some legal citations. One other thing comes to mind: How is the case of the fire fighter fired for his religious pamphlet… Read more »

Benevolus
Benevolus

It was snowing in Covington on Monday.
(They are filming a winter scene for a movie out there.)

Noway2016
Noway2016

Well, there ya go! Thanks, B!

Saltycracker
Saltycracker

Hey, a sensible learning experience right here. IMO a cop is off the clock but not off duty with a patrol car parked at home, and subject to her conditions of employment. Still don’t see her infraction, if singular, as immediate dismissal. Unless you can be dismissed for stupid excuses.

gcp
gcp

Salty you are correct. She drove a marked Roswell pd car to and from her home thus there was a perceived flag/departmental linkage. Departments have wide discretion in such matters but there were likely other non publicized infractions and perhaps a bad work history which contributed to her dismissal.

Will Durant
Will Durant

If true, the claim of ignorance that the flag is offensive to others would be a contributing factor if I were her supervisor.

Saltycracker
Saltycracker

Then I read that was a misconstrued reported answer, she was responding to the flag being offensive as it was related to some crime news she as unaware of…..heck who knows…..let those involved sort it out….

gt7348b
gt7348b

As a former employee of Roswell, this is absolutely allowable. As a public employee, your first amendment rights are restricted especially if they can be connected to your employer. Additionally, anything that places Roswell in a negative light (which she did by placing her marked patrol car), is subject to termination. She had to sign a document saying she understood as a condition of employment just like I did. A public servant has to be cognizant that they are held and observed to a higher standard. (Aside – I’m sometimes shocked what people put in emails subject to FOIA)

Indypendant
Indypendant

se·di·tion
səˈdiSH(ə)n/
noun
conduct or speech inciting people to rebel against the authority of a state or monarch.
synonyms: rabble-rousing, incitement to rebel, subversion, troublemaking, provocation;

Sedition is against the law in the United States.

Furthermore, for those of you flying or defending the Confederate flag, you lost. You are more than welcome to leave this great country of ours.

Noway2016
Noway2016

“synonyms: rabble-rousing, incitement to rebel, subversion, troublemaking, provocation”
Perfect definition! Has no relevance for simply flying a flag, but a perfect definition. So, Michael Brown’s step father should be cited for this when he encouraged the assembled mob to “burn this bi**h down?”

Indypendant
Indypendant

You’re a peach.

I thought Georgia was a right to work state and you could be fired without cause at any moment?

Noway2016
Noway2016

Concentrate, Indy, concentrate! First it was “sedition” and now “right to work?” What’s your next explanation in defense of Roswell’s denial of their employee’s constitutional rights?

Indypendant
Indypendant

He was a racist butthole?

YOU’RE FIRED!

Noway2016
Noway2016

Ummm, Indy, I think the officer was female. Go back to sleep!

Indypendant
Indypendant

Can’t do that, going out to register African-American and Hispanic voters for the upcoming Presidential election!

LoyaltyIsMyHonor
LoyaltyIsMyHonor

Indy thinks women belong in the kitchen.

Indypendant
Indypendant

Stooping to personal insults?

Charlie, is this how you want your comment section run?

blakeage80
blakeage80

Cable vs Netflix: This brought my thoughts back to my beloved Aereo TV. Stupid Supreme Court.

Saltycracker
Saltycracker

For giggles just click on your Netflix account and click documentaries or TV documentaries, now that’s current 😎😎😎

Noway2016
Noway2016

And another pearl from Radical Islamic Animals….. http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/693326/Normandy-attack-hostages-taken-armed-men-Saint-Etienne-du-Rouvray The solution for this problem was presented years ago by an old Georgia drill sergeant: “A Copperhead will kill you. It could kill one of my dogs. It could kill one of my grandchildren. It could kill any one of my four great grandchildren. They play all the time where I found those killers. “And you know, when I discovered these Copperheads, I didn’t call my wife Shirley for advice, like I do on most things. I didn’t go before the city council. I didn’t yell for help from my neighbors. I… Read more »

ChrisFromMarietta
ChrisFromMarietta

Some large chickens came home to roost last night in Cobb. I don’t believe it was about the Braves per se, but rather the whole way the deal was managed and rammed down the peoples throats without their voices being heard. A price had to be paid for taking away the voters right to a referendum, but also note the slap-dash job with the stadium, with parking plan still up in the air and a bridge over I-285 that the ARC says is “critical” remaining up in the air (two active lawsuits and a hearing next month in front of… Read more »

Teri
Teri

The fact that the photo the AJC chose to run on the front page is one of Boyce being congratulated by Bill Byrne gives me a good sense of what the next four years have in store.

Also, what has Boyce said he’ll do to “help make the thing a success at least from an operational standpoint?” I’ve only read/heard about his feelings on the deal in general, and not as much about moving forward.

chefdavid
chefdavid

What Tom Dickson ousted?

raconteuse
raconteuse

Also! Sharon Barnes Sutton was defeated in DeKalb. I can’t wait for George’s write-up.

Bart
Bart

I guess the lesson of Tim Lee’s demise is voters would rather accept the boring status quo instead of striving for innovative, exciting growth and prosperity. This is not the Cobb County where I grew up when our elected leaders made bold, visionary decisions supported by energetic, growth oriented citizens who knew Lockheed could not be counted on forever as the main job source. Hard to imagine what would happen if the commission dared to propose such large scale projects as Galleria, Town Center and others in this era of mob/micro management by know-it-all nimbys. Damn shame.

Noway2016
Noway2016

Great points, TJ, but I think the thing that really did him in was the parking lot mess. Might have he lost anyway? Sure. But the heavy handedness of his restrictitng private property was the final nail.

Teri
Teri

Agreed, Bart. It’s imperative to be thoughtful about new developments and redevelopments (which is most of what we have in the Smyrna area). By it’s also critical to not be regressive. I’m concerned.

Noway2016
Noway2016
xdog
xdog
George Dickel
George Dickel

Even as a committed Tim Lee voter who had no use for a candidate who could not define for me what he had to offer outside of not being the incumbent, I found Tim Lee’s campaign embarrassing. The “Tax Hike Mike Boyce” mailers and all the literature describing Tim Lee as a victim of the mean old liberal AJC were pathetic. There was no spinning the terrible optics of the parking lot deal, and the geniuses running the campaigns and PACs were sending three mailers a day reminding voters of it at every turn.

Teri
Teri

The mailers made me cringe.

augusta52
augusta52

Maybe Tim Lee should have consulted with fellow Cobbite Roy E. Barnes about how lack of transparency can do you in, that the title of the old country song ‘Behind Closed Doors” is not the way the public wants business conducted in Cobb especially when a lot of their tax money is involved.

Teri
Teri

“Sonny lied!!1!!1!”

MattMD_actual
MattMD_actual

My comment was deleted. I should have pointed out that some “HYPHENATED-AMERICANS” think the battle flag is offensive.

Apparently you can’t say “blacks” on this site.

My whole post was about how I think the Roswell Police took their discipline too far; they should have handled this issue internally.