Morning Reads for November 19th, 2018

Good Morning from West Georgia! And Happy Thanksgiving Week!

90
Leave a Reply

Please Login to comment
11 Comment threads
79 Thread replies
1 Followers
 
Most reacted comment
Hottest comment thread
13 Comment authors
Sally ForthBenevolusbethebalancedownthemiddleEllynn Recent comment authors
  Subscribe  
newest oldest most voted
Notify of
gulch
gulch

Same thing as I have been saying but better. Yes, this is a partisan conservative site. But the regular media will not report this so here goes: https://www.redstate.com/kimberly_ross/2018/11/17/democrats-claim-abrams-fact-checker-destroys-theory/ Summary: 1. The “1 million voter purges” were done in accordance with a law passed in 1997 by a Democratic legislature and signed by a Democratic governor. All secretaries of state have complied with this law and it has never been an issue or controversy till the Abrams campaign made it so. The 53,000 registrations held were in accordance with a legislative exact match law. The people affected merely had to provide… Read more »

Dave Bearse
Dave Bearse

Trump: “I went down to Florida. Rick Scott won and he won by a lot. I don’t know what happened to all those votes that disappeared at the very end. And if I didn’t put a spotlight on that election before it got down to the 12,500 votes, he would of lost that election, OK?” I stated a month or more ago that when the GOP wins, it because Trump stopped voter fraud. And if they lose, it’s because of voter fraud. Any words from “moderate” Republicans on multiple unfounded allegations of fraud? No? I have one for you, Sayonara.

gulch
gulch

So Trump is your standard now? If your argument is that Stacey Abrams is no more truthful, honest, trustworthy, ethical or moral than Trump then we have no room or reason to disagree.

A difference: there is a real segment of the GOP and the conservative movement called “Never Trump” that includes such prominent members as George Will. When there is a similar crowd on the left let me know.

chamblee54
chamblee54

I compare Stacey Abrams to Donald Trump. Take the voter access issue, and compare it to immigration. The rhetoric from both parties takes a portion of truth, and blows it up. Inconvenient facts are overlooked. The issues were shamelessly exploited in an effort to play to the base. Both parties are shameless demagogues, and not to be trusted.

gulch
gulch

I don’t compare it to immigration at all. Illegal immigration actually is illegal. It is a violation of federal statutes. Doing so once is a misdemeanor, doing so multiple times is a felony. It is a federal statute that many modern left-liberals and progressives – though in times past they had the opposite view – disagree with and do not wish to be enforced. By contrast, there was nothing illegal at all in the manner that Kemp conducted this election. So you can pick another issue if you want: something that Trump says is illegal but isn’t illegal. Something that… Read more »

Benevolus
Benevolus

Illegal immigration …It is a federal statute that many modern left-liberals and progressives … do not wish to be enforced.

Well if we are going to generalize like that, can we agree that many modern conservatives are white supremacists?

It’s just pointless to try to have a discussion when statements like that are the baseline.

gulch
gulch

“can we agree that many modern conservatives are white supremacists?”

Lots of progressives actually do believe this and say so with abandon. So pick another example please.

Noway2016
Noway2016

Go Race Ranger, Go Race Ranger, Go Race Ranger, Goooooooooooooooo!!!

Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

I don’t compare it to immigration at all. Illegal immigration actually is illegal. It is a violation of federal statutes. Doing so once is a misdemeanor, doing so multiple times is a felony. It is a federal statute that many modern left-liberals and progressives – though in times past they had the opposite view – disagree with and do not wish to be enforced. This is wrong on so many levels. One: The argument isn’t that immigration laws “shouldn’t” be enforced, the argument is that “show me your papers” enforcement is counter-productive and a waste of law enforcement resources. The… Read more »

chamblee54
chamblee54

My point was in the way Donald Trump used the immigration issue, was similar to the way that Stacy Abrams used the voting access issue. The way they went demagogue on these two issues was very similar. Also similar was the amount of truth, compared to the amount of nonsense rhetoric.

bethebalance
bethebalance

Go back and find Jessica S.’s piece on the exact match law. Then you can at least be up to speed with the real fact-checking.

chamblee54
chamblee54

It would be helpful to publish the link on this.

gulch
gulch

Why? What would be most helpful would be for Abrams’ supporters to explain exactly what it is that makes Kemp’s victory illegitimate.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/18/politics/abrams-kemp-georgia-race-legal-winner-sotu-cnntv/index.html

I want the Stacey Abrams people to explain precisely what was wrong with Kemp enforcing state law in a manner consistent with now every other Georgia SOS, Republican and Democrat, has.

Benevolus
Benevolus

There are literally dozens of news stories about Kemp and the GOP’s efforts to suppress the vote over the past few years, many of which have been discussed here. You would have to have been on a years long sabbatical to a remote island with no internet to not know this. It’s easy to google now that you are back in society. Courts have already decided some of these issues. You can stop pretending to want to know the facts.

chamblee54
chamblee54

I have read many… too many … of those stories. They make the same points over and over. The AP story about 53k registrations on hold is frequently cited, even though it has some issues.
One of the problems with the election from hell is the lack of critical thought. Anything Stacey Abrams says is repeated as gospel. It is a dream story for the ankle biter media… racism, government corruption/incompetence, and racism, in Honey BooBoo land.

Benevolus
Benevolus

I don’t believe Kemp has ever disputed that number. And I also believe that it was the subject of a lawsuit in which it also wasn’t challenged. And it doesn’t even matter what the exact number is. It is some number likely larger than 1000, or even 10,000. The point is that, no matter what the number is, he used his discretion to excessively try to purge these registrations. And saying that all voters need to do is show up with ID isn’t really the whole story, is it? At that point you are just shifting the discretion to the… Read more »

chamblee54
chamblee54

The AP story is about registrations being put on hold. You shift in mid paragraph to talking about purging inactive voters. Which issue are you talking about?

gulch
gulch

Please, stop claiming that it is about the 53K because I read “Kemp purged millions of voters” in every story about this.

Benevolus
Benevolus

So you want to argue about what the exact number is? Or the time frame? You are missing the point. On purpose, of course.

Benevolus
Benevolus

I want to tell a story; Some here may remember that I got a traffic ticket earlier this year. It was a BS ticket but I had to go to court to fight it. The ticket was dismissed. So I had to go down and defend myself against an overzealous collection agency hired by the city to generate revenue. This is very much like the hoops some voters have to go through just to try to cast a ballot. Well guess what, the saga doesn’t end there. I recently got another notice from the collection agency accusing me of failure… Read more »

gulch
gulch

@Benevolus: I have never argued that Kemp – and the GOP generally – did no and does not try to reduce turnout of populations that do not vote for them. My point has always been that Kemp’s actions were within the law, and that these laws have been consistently upheld by the state and federal supreme court. What Kemp did was entirely legal, and the Abrams campaign and the press did everything in their power to create the impression that it wasn’t. The people who are talking about boycotting Georgia over this actually believe that Kemp used illegal tactics to… Read more »

Benevolus
Benevolus

A few years ago Kemp tried to implement an exact-match criteria for registrations. He was challenged and lost that case. So the GOP legislature came to his rescue and passed a law that might have given him cover, so he started doing it again. He was challenged again, and a judge told him AGAIN to stop doing that. Besides, just because it’s the law doesn’t make it right. There have been many things that were ‘the law’ that we don’t do anymore. But if you want to own being the party of voter suppression because ‘it’s legal’, I guess that… Read more »

gulch
gulch

@Benevolus: Why yes. You do have the right to pursue a policy. Others have the right to challenge that policy in court and the courts have a right to rule on it. Your only issue would be if the courts told Kemp to stop (or to go) and he violated the court order. Otherwise you have no case. “Besides, just because it’s the law doesn’t make it right.” Here is the deal, Benevolus. I am not going to let you or your side be the arbiter of what is right and what isn’t right. You know why? Because you are… Read more »

Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

My point has always been that Kemp’s actions were within the law So the issue is systemic discrimination and disenfranchisement of minority voters? For once, I agree with you. When Alabama required voter ID and then significantly reduced the number of offices where folks could go to obtain a Driver’s license or photo-ID card, those actions were both “within the law” and intentionally devised to make it harder for black people to vote. Kemp has been the Secretary of State for eight years and has been responsible, directly and indirectly, for influencing this state’s policies with regards to elections and… Read more »

gulch
gulch

“For once, I agree with you.” You agree with me more than you are willing to acknowledge. Have you identified where those tens of thousands of votes that Abrams claimed would force a runoff were? Or do you disagree that Abrams should have never claimed that those ballots existed when they obviously did not? You are going to shift the goalposts and move the debate rather than answering like you always do. Yes, I acknowledge his role in making it harder for populations that vote overwhelmingly Democratic to vote. I freely do and have several times without being prompted by… Read more »

Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

Because not one single election in Georgia has ever been run according to the standards that Abrams, you and the rest of the voters claim to want.

What the f— are you even talking about? When have I laid out the “standards” by which an election should be conducted? Don’t allow your rush to conclusions to put words in my mouth.

Benevolus
Benevolus

I don’t know what you are talking about either. Is there something more specific that you want to refer to for discussion? Stacey Abrams is pretty smart and articulate. If she is making a claim she probably has a pretty good reason to make it. But that doesn’t mean she is above partisan hyperbole. Is that what we are arguing about? Stacey Abrams should sit down and shut up, but Team Kemp can say things like she is a “disgrace to democracy.”?

bethebalance
bethebalance

Of course it’s within Stacey Abrams’ interest to ensure that every provisional and absentee and other challenged vote is counted. Because the underlying presumption is that the votes that wouldn’t otherwise get counted would go more in favor of her political party. Also, I support her efforts to raise the bar- and maybe, just maybe, the procedures to collect, count, and review votes will be tighter and more efficient now. And I would support those procedures if she was a candidate or not. In fact, I would support anyone who advocates that we raise the bar to make sure our… Read more »

downthemiddle
downthemiddle

Gulch, that is a brutally honest and truthful reply!

gulch
gulch

Are you talking about this? https://www.jurist.org/news/2018/11/federal-judge-blocks-georgia-exact-match-voter-id-law/

In any case explain to me what Abrams and others mean when they claim that Kemp suppressed turnout, disenfranchised voters and stole the election? What Abrams meant when she claimed that she felt that Kemp’s victory was illegitimate? Because if the election was run in a manner that was allowed by state law – and it was because if it wasn’t Abrams would have filed lawsuits with the state supreme court and the federal court to invalidate it already – what is it that makes it illegitimate?

Dave Bearse
Dave Bearse

It’s Thanksgiving week and as the year’s end approaches, a time for reflection. When did you personally realize there was no floor to the GOP establishment’s acceptance of the ridiculousness of Trump’s opinion of himself? That you were experiencing the cult of a nude Emperor wearing clothes? For me it was: “We have to prime the pump. Have you heard that expression used before? Because I haven’t heard it. I mean, I just… I came up with it a couple of days ago and I thought it was good.” https://www.economist.com/united-states/2017/05/11/transcript-interview-with-donald-trump The was no Republican fiscal conservative shame when Trump stated… Read more »

xdog
xdog
Dave Bearse
Dave Bearse

If your house was burnt down. Others not so much.

downthemiddle
downthemiddle

Dave, what is the democratic party these days upon reflection? Tax increases, incompetence, spewing hate, open borders and no growth policies?

Noway2016
Noway2016

Dude!!! Glad you’re back! Andrew, are you glad DTM is back?! My buddies at Myrtles were asking where you went!!

Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

Finally, a flare up Noway can be happy about.

Noway2016
Noway2016

It’s been an interesting two years. All of The Great Man’s triumphs for the country, promises made and even more kept!! I’m hoping we keep MS tomorrow. After that, Noway is gone for a good long bit. Nothing more to argue about or prove. Drew, B and Balance can have their long waited for echo chamber. Thanks again to TGM! He saved the country!

bethebalance
bethebalance

Waiting for the link to CPUSA.com and something something Venezuela.

downthemiddle
downthemiddle

Yep, but you don’t dispute it!

xdog
xdog

What if it turns out the next infrastructure bill sends 30 million rakes to California and tells them to get to work on those forest floors?

Will Durant
Will Durant

Raking America Great Again

chamblee54
chamblee54

If a leaf blower runs in an empty forest, does it make a sound?

Will Durant
Will Durant

Also those rakes will be in lieu of the dollars needed to rebuild “Pleasure,” CA.

downthemiddle
downthemiddle

At least they will be shovel ready for a change…. or should I say rake ready jobs?

Will Durant
Will Durant

Mighty callous of you, considering the body count, but so was the President. Tweeting that he might even consider withholding disaster relief funds because of California’s environmentalists (read Democrats) the day after the outset of the Camp Fire when people were still fleeing for their lives. Yesterday he flew in to speechify, couldn’t remember the name of the town he was in that had been destroyed and doubled down on the environmental blame. An accusation that is just as false as his claim to have heard about raking forests from the president of Finland. Besides that it takes one helluva… Read more »

gulch
gulch

And one from the left: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/11/georgia-stacey-abrams-brian-kemp-election-not-stolen.html Even this says: This ties in with the third and final problem I see with “stolen election” rhetoric: It focuses attention on the wrong question: whether there was enough suppression to change election outcomes. As I’ve long argued, the right question is why the state gets to put stumbling blocks in front of voters—such as onerous voter registration requirements and easy voter-purge rules—without offering a good reason for doing so. We know that the “voter fraud” and public-confidence arguments often advanced for suppressive tactics are bogus, and we need to keep saying it whether… Read more »

Noway2016
Noway2016
Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

Do you want to elaborate on what crime she actually committed or does “illegal acts” encompass anything your daddy doesn’t like?

bethebalance
bethebalance

I notice how there was a literal and direct assumption of illegality– in direct spite of all the recent cries that we’ve lost the way on the principle of “innocent until proven guilty.”
Guess what’s good for the goose–

Noway2016
Noway2016

Why did she resign?

Ellynn
Ellynn

Chief Judge Jack Tuter already ruled on this. Last I looked being incompetent is not a crime… yet.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-12/the-latest-scott-wants-judge-to-impound-voting-machines

Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

If being incompetent was a crime, Brian Kemp would be serving a life sentence.

Noway2016
Noway2016

LMAO!!!!! Your mental gymnastics is dizzying!!

chefdavid
chefdavid

Some interesting maps. “Fulton County, the heart of the Atlanta metropolitan area, rejected 1 out of more than 17,000 submitted absentee ballots, according to the secretary of state’s data file. Nearby Gwinnett County received a similar number of ballots, 20,000, but rejected nearly 1,600, or more than 7 percent of them.” Makes you go hmmmm

chamblee54
chamblee54

This was the counties, not Brian Kemp.

bethebalance
bethebalance

So dig in on those details. Who’s the Gwinnett’s Board of Elections Chair? What’s the partisan make-up of the Board? Of the County Commission members that appointed them? Who’s the top paid elections staff?
Will Noway call for the resignation and/or prosecution of this County Elections Chair if there was some over-zealousness or outside-the-bounds decisions?

chamblee54
chamblee54

It doesn’t matter. Stacey Abrams will blame Brian Kemp.

gulch
gulch

No details to dig into. Whether they followed a strict standard or a permissive one, the matter was left entirely at their discretion by Georgia law. Either claim that Gwinnett broke Georgia law by excluding those ballots, cite evidence to prove it or find another issue to champion.

bethebalance
bethebalance

Y’all are the ones blaming Gwinnett. My suggestion was that if you’re going to pass the buck to them, then you can’t just write their behavior off at the same time. Plus, if you dug in, you could provide actual useful details and novel information instead of all the re-hash.
Plus, anyone who knows, or is even skeptical of government, knows that use of discretion is often where the problems are. Ignore at your own peril.
Also, not all improper use of discretion is “illegal”– it can be just unethical or violative of administrative procedure.

Noway2016
Noway2016

Ohhhhhh, that’s all!! “I love the smell of rationalization in the morning. It smells like…desperation…” Lol!

bethebalance
bethebalance

Rationalizing what now?

gulch
gulch

No need to go hmmmm. Some counties used applied a strict standard, other counties used loose ones. For example, the AJC reported that some counties ignored the exact match standard and also counted ballots lacking addresses, birthdates etc. before they received the federal court orders telling them to. (Meaning that they counted illegal ballots.) As I stated yesterday, ballots get spoiled in every election for a number of reasons, the most common of which are voter error. This has never been controversial before now and was only controversial this time because of Abrams’ posturing. Far more ballots were spoiled in… Read more »

chamblee54
chamblee54

FWIW, Miss Abrams was 17k votes short of a runoff when the election was certified. At the start of the week, she was 22k votes short. She gained 5k votes from all that turmoil.

gulch
gulch

Abrams claimed that there were tens of thousands of votes that Kemp refused to count, knowing full well that the counting of ballots – as well as pretty much everything else – was in the hands of local officials and Kemp couldn’t withhold ballots in Fulton and DeKalb even if he wanted to. We should never forget to cite that whenever we talk about Abrams’ efforts here.

Noway2016
Noway2016

Don’t confuse our Libs with facts, Gulch!! They cannot stand the FACT they couldn’t rob the election!!!

bethebalance
bethebalance

Part of the ballots she “identified” were ballots the relevant Judge also declined to let be counted- where the voter was registered in a County different than the County of the polling place. I had mentioned previously that this was a stretch too far, but to be clear, it was an argument about which votes Could Be Counted, not votes that had a presumption of validity. Either way, a stretch, but an argument worth the shot.

Noway2016
Noway2016

What? An attempt to let stand as “valid” votes that were cast in the wrong location? You would argue to let that vote actually cast? I just wanna be clear as to your stand. So, if I lived in Cobb but voted in Polk, you’d want that vote to stand?

bethebalance
bethebalance

I personally wouldn’t argue that, or ask a lawyer to argue it.
But if I was the lawyer representing a candidate, maybe.
Like I said, a stretch of an argument, but an argument nonetheless. Without doing the legal research, I think you could argue that these folks could cast provisional ballots then prove their address within the County within the ten days or whatever.
You make arguments even if you don’t know what might stick.

Noway2016
Noway2016

What would your argument be to have that particular vote count? This I am really curious about.

Noway2016
Noway2016

Got it. Provisional…

bethebalance
bethebalance

Yeah, then you prove you live in the County of the polling place.

Noway2016
Noway2016

So in my example, I live in Cobb, voted in Polk. So I take my electric bill back to Polk to prove I lived in Cobb? and have that vote then count in Polk? Or what?

Noway2016
Noway2016

So, would you have them go back to their legal counties for the final casting? Or just let their mis-cast vote count where it was cast if they brought in the electric bill?

bethebalance
bethebalance

I think it would have to be the County of the polling place. Like they moved to a new County but didn’t update their voter reg.

Noway2016
Noway2016

That should never fly. Better boogie back to Cobb if you have any hope of having it count. Did Stacey actually advocate for a scenario like this?

bethebalance
bethebalance

Not sure if we got it exactly right, but generally.
It’s essentially wanting to let people update their registered addresses- on election day.
We’re not there yet.

Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

When brown people are an imminent threat but not really that threatening nor that imminent.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/19/troops-us-mexico-border-come-home-1005510

Will Durant
Will Durant

SNL skit with Steve Carrell as Jeff Bezos:

https://youtu.be/rTb3GR6yrQI

Sally Forth
Sally Forth

Seems the violence in the whole country of Hondurans is not as bad as it is in New Orleans, Detroit and other cities in the US. So that “asylum from violence” card won’t play. https://www.yahoo.com/news/tijuana-residents-protest-migrant-caravan-camped-city-192221898.html And how about the Mayor of Tijuana’s red cap! https://www.npr.org/2018/11/19/669193788/shouting-mexico-first-hundreds-in-tijuana-march-against-migrant-caravan When sarcasm gets it wrong…. Here ya go, a little better coverage on the coming shuffling of troops at the border: https://thehill.com/policy/defense/417503-pentagon-to-begin-drawdown-of-troops-at-border-report This draw-down is because the initial order was for a set time and to perform specific tasks. Among the troops who will remain after construction engineers and logisticians start departing are helicopter pilots,… Read more »

Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

The fact places in the US have similar murder rates does not disqualify you from seeking asylum. That’s not how any of this works.

I’d also note that the article you cited to includes Honduras’ national homicide rate, a figure which doesn’t account for the much higher homicide rates in the mountainous regions these folks are fleeing and doesn’t account for kidnappings, rapes, or other violent crimes that these folks are being subjected to.

You’ve been so colossally wrong on so many elements of this issue.

bethebalance
bethebalance

I don’t think I can entirely blame Sally for the wrong-ness, as it’s probably a narrative that originated and propagated elsewhere. A narrative of faulty logic which then looked for any evidence to support it. A conclusion in search of any line of persuasion. In this case, the fault(y) line is that The US=The Honduras. Or is comparable in any meaningful way regarding living conditions. You can’t presume anybody will be able to see through that line of “logic”. Edit: There are of course possible ways to compare, but they are typically complex indices that account for a range of… Read more »

Dave Bearse
Dave Bearse

“Ivanka Trump sent hundreds of emails last year to White House aides, Cabinet officials and her assistants using a personal account, many of them in violation of federal records rules, according to people familiar with a White House examination of her correspondence.”

Who could have possible known that government officials e-mails are supposed to be on government servers?

Now there’s a boob that didn’t fall far from daddy.

Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

I’ll let Noway start the “lock her up” chant.

downthemiddle
downthemiddle

I wonder if she had a bathroom server, deleted tens of thousands of subpoenaed emails, has she been in Washington some 40 years embroiled in countless scandals and has she lie about it nonstop?!

Did she say she only had one device when she had 13 and did she claim to “wash” her devices in the dish washer? !! Did they find her hammers and Bleachbit?! Noway, keep saying Lock her up! She deserves it! Good try!

Benevolus
Benevolus

Is that goalposts way off in the distance there?
I guess it’s a good time to be in the goalpost moving business.
Who you gonna call? Two Men and a Narrative.

Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

Ah, so using a private email to potentially send and receive classified information is only a bad thing if you’ve been in Washington “some 40 years.” As for the devices, I think a little education is in order… When I worked for the government, I had a government-issued Blackberry that I used for all of my work calls, emails, texts, etc. Under GSA regulations, the phone either needs to be recycled or reused. That process entails data deletion so that the device is wiped clean for the next user. In the case of Secretary Clinton, or anyone with a TS… Read more »

Dave Bearse
Dave Bearse

Clinton was wrong. And it cost her.

Daddy campaigned on it for months so not knowing using private e-mail address makes her an incompetent boob of a senior advisor, in Trump parlance, well-qualified, or she thinks herself above the law.

You make the call.

Dave Bearse
Dave Bearse

“The 5,800 troops who were rushed to the southwest border amid President Donald Trump’s pre-election warnings about a refugee caravan will start coming home as early as this week — just as some of those migrants are beginning to arrive.

The general overseeing the deployment told POLITICO on Monday that the first troops will start heading home in the coming days as some are already unneeded, having completed the missions for which they were sent.”

The missions: Puff up Trump’s ego and stunt doubles for ICE to pander to the base. MAGA.

bethebalance
bethebalance

I thought the mission was to protect the local polling places from the bull rush of migrants trying to cast votes for Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi.

Benevolus
Benevolus

Then after going out and changing shirts, they go back in and vote for Obama and Al Gore.