Morning Reads for Tuesday, June 19

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atlindy
atlindy

The Washington Examiner has the best take on this. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/editorials/compassion-and-the-rule-of-law-at-the-border “Current federal law leaves the nation choosing between these two bad options and inevitably finding the other side’s stance repugnant. Behind the raging policy debate about “children being torn from their parents’ arms” are differing philosophies of national sovereignty and differing attitudes toward lawbreaking and mercy. There is no quick fix, but clearly the Trump administration can handle things better. Under President Trump’s new “zero tolerance” rules, immigrants caught entering the country illegally are charged, either with a misdemeanor or, in the case of repeat offenders, with a felony. Arrested… Read more »

Will Durant
Will Durant

Yep, definitely LDIG.

bethebalance
bethebalance

“Children can’t be sent to jail.”
But we can detain them in cages for extended periods of time?
It is also not a crime to seek asylum.
So a plea for asylum upon entry allows for options to keep families together.
Are there any good options? Doesn’t appear so.
It isn’t hard, though, to imagine a secure yet humane holding facility.
But it doesn’t look like anyone has prepared for this policy.

Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

In recent years, “no borders, no deportations, anyone who wants to come is free to do so and can stay” has become the de facto position of the Democratic Party, and the left worldwide. Not even remotely close to true, but you keep on constructing them straw men. Make law enforcement some a la carte grab bag I guess in addition to straw men you’ve decided to check the “slippery slope” box on your “how do I make a bad argument?” bingo card. No one is credibly saying that immigration laws shouldn’t exist. The contention is that we shouldn’t be… Read more »

bethebalance
bethebalance

I’m guessing that the whole “Dems want open borders and limitless immigration” has been repeated so many times by those who prefer to spread untruth and sow discord that it has been embedded in the minds of those who don’t know better.

Gregs
Gregs

The Trump administration policy of separating and interning children is about one thing and one thing only, “the wall.” Over the last few years, there have been several bipartisan proposals to comprehensively address the dreamers and immigration overall. You can agree or disagree with the Border Security Act of 2013 but any suggestion that Democratic have blocked legislation to fix the immigration system is a lie. The reason this did not become law was because the majority of Republicans did not support it, not a majority of the Congress, the majority of Republicans. The Hastert rule prevents any bipartisan solutions… Read more »

Gregs
Gregs

I might add that Trump and the trumpets see these children as murderers, rapist and animals so treating them this way is justified.

MikeSilver
MikeSilver

The best policy for the kids safety is to separate the kids from the adults. That is the only way to protect the kids from molestation or worse by the adults. Separating the kids will aid in detecting sex trafficking of minors. There are many good and proper reasons for the temporary separation and all of them are for the kid’s safety.

The libs and Chamber of Commerce Republicans don’t give a hoot about the kid’s safety, they just shamelessly want another avenue to push their open borders agenda.

Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

First off, the decision to separate children from their parents has nothing to do with “protect[ing] the kids from molestation or worse by the adults” or rooting out sex trafficking. Children are being separated from their parents because their parents are being incarcerated while awaiting charges on a misdemeanor offense (for those seeking asylum, they’re being incarcerated for doing something that is completely legal). So the “best policy” isn’t a policy that throws both mom and child in a cage. The “best policy” is one that allows the family to stay together while the parents await proceedings on the misdemeanor… Read more »

Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

IN ADDITION:
DHS’s own numbers say that 0.61% of families from October through February included alleged smugglers or traffickers. That’s 191 cases out of 31,102 family units. In FY2017, only 97 of 75,622 family units involved suspected smuggling.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/06/18/how-to-mislead-with-statistics-dhs-secretary-nielsen-edition/

bethebalance
bethebalance

Mike, for some reason, you go far into the outfield on immigration issues. The safety and well-being of the children has nothing to do with the policy- it’s about punishing the adults. But you repeat this line I hear all the time, that Dems- and now moderate Repubs- want some sort of weird open borders. Maybe some want to allow limitless immigration (subject to background checks at least), but I’ve never heard anyone saying limitless or lawless. Everyone I know just wants a more compassionate system that considers things like being a targeted victim of gang violence, e.g., to be… Read more »

The Eiger
The Eiger

The stupidity is strong with this one I say.

Ellynn
Ellynn
Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

A rare bright spot in a spate of bad news… a federal judge in Kansas – a Republican appointee no less – struck down the voter suppression law cooked up by Kris Kobach. Not only did the court find it unconstitutional, the judge determined that Kobach was so bad at being an attorney he specifically ordered him to take 6 hours of classes on how to introduce evidence at trial.

ScottNAtlanta
ScottNAtlanta

This issue with separating children from their parents from a pure political view is going to tank republicans if they dont act very quickly. I just heard a recording of a 6 year old girl pleading with officers not to take her away from her parents. Only a sociopath can support that. I am willing to bet that if Cagle and Kemp continue to tow the Trump (which is false) line…they are going to lose…bigly. This is one of those issues entering American consciousness at light speed…and thats never good for the party thats seen as the villain

Sally Forth
Sally Forth

An audio of crying kids does not prove anything, e.g. where? whom? etc. — it’s simply a propaganda tool being used to push the Democrats’ political agenda. I hear kids crying and screaming at local McDonald’s and even in sit-down restaurants when their parents go to the bathroom or whatever. And have you never heard a child crying “Mama!” when a working mother drops them off at a nursery before heading to their job? Clinton, Bush, and Obama didn’t seem to have a problem with holding their hands on the Bible and swearing to uphold the Constitution and the laws… Read more »

Sally Forth
Sally Forth

Umm, there were supposed to be paragraph breaks in that post – please forgive. And what happened to our “edit” function??

bethebalance
bethebalance

One thing we can all agree on is that we miss the Edit function.

Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

Ah yes, because throwing a kid in a detention center for an indefinite period of time is just like when a mom goes to the bathroom.

Moron.

bethebalance
bethebalance

My understanding is that gang violence can be so pervasive that most all have to either Join or Die. And if you Join, you’ll probably die then too. It’s like conscripting child soldiers. Nothing wrong with that, I suppose. The parents made rational choices to stay where they live and be abducted. And there goes that old saw of the “Dem political agenda” argument. So the Dems made the Pres. and Sessions enact this policy so that they could use the results to advance their goals? Of what? Stopping child abuse policies? Ignorant. Abuse enabling. Hater.

Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

Balance, the Democrats are clearly playing three dimensional chess, here. Clearly, Stephen Miller was recruited by George Soros to serve as a double agent for the Deep State and was planted in Jeff Sessions’ Senate office and later the White House in order to advance an immigration policy so noxious it would cause the American public to embrace the Democrats’ open border agenda. Wake up, sheeple!

bethebalance
bethebalance

I almost never get riled up to the point of my last comment. It’s just such a stark lack of compassion, and ignorance of how laws work, and is fundamentally anti-American.

ScottNAtlanta
ScottNAtlanta

I sure hope you dont have kids

Caroline
Caroline

He’s not upholding the law. The law allows people to claim assylum. Trump is denying that right, charging them as criminals and snatching their children.
Frankly I would love pictures of the children in the detention centers instead of just tapes. However Nielsen claims she doesn’t know where the females and children under 10 detainees are.

Sally Forth
Sally Forth

Caroline, you’re right the law allows people to claim asylum, and the Trump administration is definitely allowing them to file for asylum processing under US law. The same as Obama did. There is actually a legal process for doing it, and for verifying claims. For some stupid reason a federal court several years ago ruled that children cannot stay with adults during that asylum process. So the current situation existed under Obama and Bush also. And the law identifies teenagers and young adults up to 18 as “children.” So the whole process has never made sense to me. But where… Read more »

Caroline
Caroline

No, actually what is happening is Trump is having people turned away at the location where they are claiming assylum telling them to come back day after day or some other thing. The bar for assylum is pretty low but he’s turning them away and then they are crossing the border and being arrested because they have been trying to do it the legal way for days. Can you guys get your stories straight? You guys said Obama was too lax. You said he was letting too many people in. This is not the same thing that was happening under… Read more »

Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

But where was the media outrage and leftist propaganda when Obama did this? The Obama Administration did use detention as a deterrent in 2014, but families were detained together and the Administration did not have a policy of separating families. The policy of separating children from their parents is a new policy announced and implemented by the Trump Administration. John Kelly, Stephen Miller, and Jeff Sessions have said as much. Some of the photos of illegal migrants’ children lying on the floor in cages are stamped/dated 2014 and earlier The photos you’re referring to come from a 2014 surge in… Read more »

Gregs
Gregs

Trump upholds the law! What a joke. He has assulted every institution put in place to uphold the law. He attacks the judiciary on a regular basis. He attempts to undermine the Justice department because he doesn’t understand the constitution. He’s savagely attacked the FBI, the CIA. He called our military killers and compared them to Putin😂s kgb (see his superbowl interview with O’reilly). He is an admirer of every brutal dictator and totalian thug on the planet and you say he upholds the law?

At some point, Trump’s enablers will have to put down the kool aide or drink it!

Caroline
Caroline

Rick Wilson says they are going to be drowning on the kool aid before long.

ScottNAtlanta
ScottNAtlanta

…and from the moron we elected to be our Senator…David Perdue
Dont talk about children being separated from their families…
Talk about our Spending Cuts to Medicare!
(you couldnt make this up)
https://www.vox.com/2018/6/19/17479526/family-separation-border-republican-press-conference

Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

Am I crazy or did Donald Trump complain about Canadians crossing into the United States to buy tennis shoes from US retailers (shoes likely produced in Asia) because Canadian tariffs on Asian goods like it was a bad thing for the US economy?

alpha male
alpha male

Oh, and IG Horowitz has now admitted he is officially investigating whether FBI anti Trump bias ( you know, that bias that several posters here claim never has been proven to exist) was the very genesis of the Mueller investigation.

But I’m sure there is nothing to see here, amirite?

Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

This thing has been out nearly a week and you still haven’t read it? Are you a slow reader? Did the lack of pictures scare you away? Am I the only literate person around here? The IG concluded there was no evidence that political bias played a role in the FBI and Justice Department’s investigation of Hillary Clinton and their decision not to prosecute. The IG’s report was not connected with or concerned with the Mueller investigation. When the next IG report again fails to validate the conclusion you’ve drawn in your own head, I look forward to having you… Read more »

Dave Bearse
Dave Bearse

But the right people saying it enough times makes it true.

Chatsprint
Chatsprint

alpha male
….. was the very genesis of the Mueller investigation.

You just make that up?
The IG report didn’t come close to stating any thing remotely close to that at all.
Is this what Faux News is pushing to their illiterates this week ?

alpha male
Noway2016
Noway2016

Ka-Boom!!

alpha male
alpha male

Yep Noway. And Chatsprint, who seemingly accused me of “ making that up” and of being “illiterate “, is doing a marvelous imitation of a cricket now.

Of course, you can generally discount an opinion as both lacking knowledge and filled with bias, when said commenter talks of “ Faux News”.

Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

Oh sweet Jesus. You’ve been out here claiming that a report you’ve never read, that doesn’t deal with the Russia investigation, exonerated the President with regard to the Russia investigation. This is a line of argument so wildly incorrect that even Trump’s most prominent flacks aren’t peddling it anymore.

I pointed this out to you, repeatedly, and it repeatedly went over your head. This will likely meet the same fate because you’re an incredibly disingenuous individual.

Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

Yup. I knew it. Homeboy doesn’t know how to read, y’all. We can go back to ignoring his whack opinions.

Caroline
Caroline

Good lord. Peter Strzoks had nothing to do with the special counsel investigation. I guess they don’t know about Papdopoulos talking to the Austrailan ambassador who then reported it to the FBI or the fact that Carter Page was basically a Russian mule that the FBI had been tapping way before he joined the Trump campaign.

These people are going to drink polonium laced kool aid when they are finally hit with the facts.

Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

Same advice I’ve given others: read the report, don’t rely solely on what your bubble has told you about it.

Strzok was a section head in the counterintelligence division, he would undoubtedly been involved in phases of the FBI’s investigation of the Trump campaign solely by virtue of his position. He was also on Mueller’s team for a short period before being dismissed.

Caroline
Caroline

I had forgotten that he was fired by Mueller. Yes, that is correct. However him starting the investigation is just pure nonsense.

alpha male
alpha male

You may want to inform IG Horowitz of your conclusion. It would apparently save him a lot of time and money since he is now investigating that very possibility as I demonstrated with that link. But it did not take that article for me to realize what Horowitz said. As I, as opposed to a couple of other commenters here, actually HEARD Horowitz state that very fact before the senate committee yesterday. I was watching it. Were you? Facts are a pesky thing sometimes . And the FACT is that he specifically stated he is now officially investigation what role… Read more »

bethebalance
bethebalance

I’m thinking that any future reports will say something similar (but not identical) to the present report. Something like: We cannot be 100% confident that there was no bias, but we’re at least 98% confident that there was no bias.
What’s sad is that 98% probably won’t be good enough for Trump or lemmings. 99.9% wouldn’t be good enough. Any chance to seize on a weakness, and turn a 1% weakness into a 99% weakness (regardless of evidence) will likely be the play.
So you’re saying there’s a chance…

Caroline
Caroline

Dude, no, Strzok’s texts had nothing to do with the Russia investigation. What is currently being investigated by the IG is Guilani’s contact with the FBI. That is what Horowitz said in testimony. Giuliani even admitted that he had been interviewed by the IG.
You don’t know about Papadopoulous and the Austrailian ambassador?

Sally Forth
Sally Forth
Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

So a jail?

Sally Forth
Sally Forth

Really, Andrew?? Doesn’t look like any jail I’ve ever seen. Looks like our government protecting children who have been manipulated by adults who may have abused them. Looks like cheery environs, fun things to do, good food, freedom to play and be kids. Sort of like a for-profit childcare center, Anytown, USA, that you or I would have to pay for out of after-tax dollars. Crickets about families and children of the mass shooting in New Jersey this weekend. Crickets about the government’s obligations to American citizens. Crickets about Alexander Mazin, Kate Steinle, and all the other Americans murdered by… Read more »

Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

It’s surrounded by fencing that is backed by privacy netting, and a sign at the gate warns visitors that it’s under video surveillance 24 hours per day. “Doesn’t look like any jail I’ve ever seen.” If someone opens the front door of the facility without first swiping a badge, an alarm blares through the hallway, warning of a potential escape. “Doesn’t look like any jail I’ve ever seen.” In a corner of the facility, children can make two 10-minute calls per week from a room with six telephones in red booths. “Doesn’t look like any jail I’ve ever seen.” I… Read more »

Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

Because this kind of stupidity warrants multiple follow ups. Looks like our government protecting children who have been manipulated by adults who may have abused them. Since old people don’t know how to read the earlier parts of the comment thread: DHS’s own numbers say that 0.61% of families from October through February included alleged smugglers or traffickers. That’s 191 cases out of 31,102 family units. In FY2017, only 97 of 75,622 family units involved suspected smuggling. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/06/18/how-to-mislead-with-statistics-dhs-secretary-nielsen-edition/ Crickets about Alexander Mazin, Kate Steinle, and all the other Americans murdered by illegal migrants. There was a not guilty verdict in… Read more »

Sally Forth
Sally Forth

What’s your excuse for being a name-calling jerk who generally concludes that 2 plus two equals ten? I don’t have the time or inclination to go through correcting all your misrepresentations on here.
Do carry on.

Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

I don’t have the time or inclination to go through correcting all your misrepresentations on here.

Oh come now, don’t lie to me. You had plenty of time, you just can’t formulate a response because I’m right. That’s why you’re getting all pissy because I called your post stupid.

Noway2016
Noway2016
Sally Forth
Sally Forth

Hey, Noway! Good to see you. Sure hope CNN is wrong as usual about Strzok still being on the FBI payroll. H/R Dept.? After all the duplicitous (some would say treasonous) things that guy has done? Fox, meet Hen House.

Jack Fitz
Jack Fitz

Honest question for Noway and Sally to contemplate….if Peter Strzok was a “deep state” implant hell bent on unraveling the Trump campaign, why didn’t he?

He knew about the counterintelligence investigation in the middle of 2016, could’ve easily leaked that info to the press before the election, but he didn’t. Why not?

Noway2016
Noway2016

Hey, Jack, why don’t you tell us all here, why Struck told his girlfriend that, “No, we’ll stop it!” Oh, really, struck? Your gonna stop a dily elected Prez?! I think not. His words and intention in that statement are treasonous! That guy needs yo be in jail right now.

Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

You didn’t answer his question (shocker)

His words and intention in that statement are treasonous!

Can you define treason for the class or are you just talking out of your thing that rhymes with class?

Jack Fitz
Jack Fitz

The text messages in question were form August of 2016, when he said “we’ll stop it.” So if you can remember back in August of 2016, Trump was not the “dily elected Prez?!” as you so eloquently put it, but he was a candidate. So from August of 2016 to November of 2016, Strzok could’ve leaked tons of incriminating things to the press about the Trump Campaign/Russian contacts which likely would’ve swayed the election against Trump. The President and his minions main argument against Strzok is he’s treasonous and he wanted to “stop” him from being elected. My main point… Read more »

Sally Forth
Sally Forth

Easy answer is that he was not as smart as he thought he was. If he had any brain at all, he knew there was no “there” there, and he was busy trying to impress his girlfriend. On official FBI devices, I might add.

bethebalance
bethebalance

I agree that it is treasonous to try and impress your girlfriend. She will lock something up.

Noway2016
Noway2016

Hope all is well, Sally! Please post more often if you are able!

Dave Bearse
Dave Bearse

“Leaders: Study the history of leaders. Discover what occurs when a regime uses scripture in an attempt to justify cruel, inhumane treatment of others. It is stunning, a great lesson for our era, and for the future of our progeny. You and I have an obligation to know these things.” — Bill Curry as quoted in the AJC’s “Politically Georgia”

Question: What would the US do about another country separating American children from their parents at its border when there was an issue with documentation until the other country were fully satisfied?

Caroline
Caroline

I hope this spurs a study of history. Something that many fundamentalists fail to recognize is that the bible has been used to promote evil and satan knows bible verses better than you ever will.

Sally Forth
Sally Forth

Dave, I believe that no political leader should use the Bible or the Koran or any religious text to further their political agenda. It’s that separation of church and state thing. To your question, the hypothetical you describe would most likely not be actionable by the US, other than to issue a travel advisory for Americans. Whether one or millions of Americans were to illegally enter another country, they would be subject to the laws of that country. Were millions of Americans to illegally flood another country, it would be considered aggression, an act of war to disrupt that nation.… Read more »

bethebalance
bethebalance

I agree that Mexico should use force to prevent anyone from migrating or seeking asylum. It doesn’t sound like a 100% violation of human rights to restrict the free movement of people.
And if other countries were separating migrating American families, or jailing migrants, of course the US would engage diplomatically to end the practice and achieve a resolution. We don’t let countries just do what they will with American citizens.

Noway2016
Noway2016
Caroline
Caroline

Baby jails:
https://apnews.com/dc0c9a5134d14862ba7c7ad9a811160e
I seem to remember this is not the first time Republicans have advocated for forcibly separating children from their parents. Newt Gingrich was advocating children be forcibly removed from their parents not due to abuse or anything else but because Newt did not like them and put them in an orphanage.

Noway2016
Noway2016

Which FBI Goober goes to jail first!? I’m betting McCabe…

Sally Forth
Sally Forth

Hard to guess, Noway. McCabe, Comey, Strrzok, Page, and whoever those “Agent Number __” are in the IG report are all in the running. God only knows who else will come out in the second IG report!

Sally Forth
Sally Forth

Libs don’t really care about the border kids or anybody but themselves.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/32069/schumer-says-hed-rather-keep-focus-trump-solve-joseph-curl

Noway2016
Noway2016

It’s totally and only about getting more dependent voters. Nothing rlse!

bethebalance
bethebalance

If/when you guys read articles- and you want to know facts and not opinion- then just read the actual quotes, not the spin and opinion that surrounds them. That’s if you want facts and not a validation of opinion. Because the actual quote is that Schumer just thinks Executive action would be faster than legislation. Turns out he’s right.