Morning Reads — June 13th

So, yesterday sucked. We’ll get to that later on. Just hug your loved ones.

Jawja

Murica

Yesterday’s terrorist attack is the largest mass shooting in our nation’s history. Yes, it impacted everyone on an emotional level; you should be as sad as I. However, it was an attack on our LGBT brothers and sisters. Don’t diminish that. If a shooting happened at a church, we would be talking about the Christians who were killed, not simply labeling them as “Americans”. Let’s respect that a community was targeted and harmed. Anyway.

Important

  • No important story this Monday. The only thing you need to know is I picked up my adorable 8-week-old black lab. She’s the best.

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Dave BearseSally ForthTheDeepDarkWill DurantScottNAtlanta Recent comment authors
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Saltycracker
Saltycracker

Orlando and the nation has experienced a horrible tragedy. More information and details will reveal themselves in the coming days on the terrorist, his activities, his family and our security. In April “mainstream” Muslims strongly defended the right of an Imam to talk at a Mosque in Sanford on killing gays out of compassion. Perhaps they will now rally for a jihad on Islamic extremists.

Robbie
Robbie

Thank you, Will. While the shooter’s ties to ISIS are yet to be confirmed, what’s clear is that he specifically targeted, after much research, an LGBT club and LGBT people. They were the specific target. It is offensive for so many to write that off. And while I’m sure there’s no one who doesn’t think donating blood is a wonderful way to respond to the massacre, folks must remember that, due to homophobia and transphobia, gay/bi men and trans women are legally prohibited from giving blood. Ignoring that reality when suggesting it as a response to an LGBT-specific tragedy, as… Read more »

auh2o
auh2o

Just off the top of my head, how about a formal declaration of war by Congress? Those that know how that process would actually work, please opine.

davidmac
davidmac

Both houses of Congress pass a (the same) Joint Resolution and the President signs it.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/wwii/dec05.asp

auh2o
auh2o

I was actually asking how an actual declaration of war would change the way we would fight ISIS.

The Eiger
The Eiger

It would give the President a very broad ability to attack ISIS. Basically everything available to the Pentagon would be on the table. I’m not sure it would work becasue Obama has shown that he has no desire to commit more troops and resources than we have already committed to the Middle East. I highly doubt that with 6 months left in his term he will have any desire other than wait and pass the problem off to Hillary. And I don’t blame him for that decision. That’s just the way it is. If he wanted to do something he… Read more »

Dave Bearse
Dave Bearse

War includes broad domestic powers as well. Like detaining American citizens indefinitely without charge–Ask Japanese-Americans about it. Or from the large majority of the GOP that is voting for Trump, keeping Muslims from entering the country.

davidmac
davidmac

I don’t think it would. We don’t acknowledge that ISIS is a government in any sense of the word, so there’s nothing “there” against which to declare war.

n.b. Before the invasion of Iraq I wrote to my senator, the recently-deceased George Voinovich, asking him to sponsor a resolution to declare war against Iraq. Never got a response.

Andrew C. Pope
Andrew C. Pope

ISIL isn’t a state, so you can’t declare war against them. Obviously, Congress can pass an AUMF to give POTUS authority for further offensive actions against ISIL in Iraq and Syria. This has been the approach taken since the “war on terror” began. I’m not convinced how we could do more. We’re currently conducting bombing campaigns in Syria and Iraq in conjunction with our allies (and Russia, although we have different priorities on who/where should be bombed since Russia is tailoring its “ISIL response” to be as beneficial to the Assad regime as possible). We’re likely conducting covert ops in… Read more »

Saltycracker
Saltycracker

Wars are usually declared against sovereign nations. Wouldn’t the appropriate act by congress be a letter of Marque ? As like pirates, Islamic extremists have several names. But that classification will not pass. And like a Chinese spy group if we get hot, they change the name. Then again would we shun nations that imprison women for sex outside marriage when they report they are raped, like Qatar and the UAE ? Then we have The Saudi’s. Would we have our military tip toe thru streets and mine fields in Syria looking for terrorists ? And have the success we… Read more »

Noway2016
Noway2016

How did Mateen finally die? Suicide or by cops?

Noway2016
Noway2016

Also, if you have a Carry Permit…Carry. It might feel a little weird on your hip or under your shoulder for a while, but do it. It may truly be the only chance you’ll have to try and protect yourself or family. The next one may be at your favorite restaurant.

Will Durant
Will Durant

You speculated back at the time that the outcome of the San Bernardino massacre could have been lessened had someone with a concealed carry permit been able to mimic the movies. There was an armed off-duty officer working security at this one and while it is possible lives were saved by him let’s wait for the dust to settle. What is now known about the San Bernardino shootout after the fact is that upon stopping their vehicle it took 23 trained officers firing 380 mostly armor piercing rounds from their own AR type carbines to put down the perpetrators. I… Read more »

Noway2016
Noway2016

I’ll stand by my opinion/belief that an armed individual might/could/possibly have helped end this abomination with a lower death count. We’ll obviously never know for sure. I’m too sickened by this to argue back and forth about it. I’m sure you and I will be debating something else soon with our usual vigor.

ScottNAtlanta
ScottNAtlanta

There should be a ban on assault rifles like the ak-15 this guy used. He was on the terror watch list yet was still able to but one. Forgetting the fact that no one can provide a reason to own this type of weapon (outside of a wartime battle field) other than maximum ability to kill and do it efficiently…he was on the terrorist watch list, and I remind everyone that attempts to fix this loophole were blocked by Senate republicans. If he hadnt been able to freely purchase this a case can be made that fewer would have died.… Read more »

TheDeepDark
TheDeepDark

You know, when most people are trying to change policy they do research to at least look like they know what they are talking about. You, on the other hand, throw around things like “ak-15” and “assault rifles” without having any idea what you are talking about.

It’s unfortunate, but expected from someone debating something they obviously know nothing about.

The Eiger
The Eiger

“Ak-15″….. face…palm…

There is no reason to continue this conversation.

Noway2016
Noway2016

As unlikely as it is that I’d defend Scott, he probably just made a typo. Ak-47/AR-15? Who cares, really? He had a point to make. Y’all don’t pile on him this am.

The Eiger
The Eiger

You are probably right. Sorry.

It just rubs me the wrong way when people talk about AR-15s and the people who own them. Scott said “reason to own this type of weapon (outside of a wartime battle field) other than maximum ability to kill and do it efficiently.”

So he’s saying that I’m probably one step away from going on a shooting spree just because I own an AR-15?

davidmac
davidmac

Eiger, Given that you are willing to engage and debate this, I have no reason at all to suspect you would go on a shooting spree. But please do enlighten me – why do you own an AR-15? What do you use it for? What purpose does it serve in your home and life? Would you be willing to have a 10-round fixed magazine, as is the law in Massachusetts and other locales, or do you insist on 30? 60? 100? These are honest questions. I shoot skeet for sport; having 2 rounds in my shotgun is plenty. My kids… Read more »

The Eiger
The Eiger

I also love to go skeet shooting. I still have my old FFA and 4H trophies for trap and skeet competitions. But trap and skeet shooting serves no purpose other than just for sport. The same reason applies to my AR-15. I enjoy going to the range and shooting with my friends. When I have the time again soon I would like to start shooting in competitions again. I also grew up on a farm where coyotes were a very real problem during calving season. Carrying my AR (which is half the weight of my Remington 300 and shorter) is… Read more »

davidmac
davidmac

Eiger, Really, this is good information. I fully understand the need to protect your livestock, and that part makes sense – but I guess I would challenge you whether you’d need the repeat-fire speed of an AR-15 when one, maybe two shots is enough to get the coyotes running away if you didn’t hit and kill. So I guess I’d also challenge you – what *is* the solution? The “nothing can be done!” mentality is beyond disturbing – I cannot and will not accept that I have to raise my children in a world where an armed gunman can burst… Read more »

The Eiger
The Eiger

I can assume that you have never tried to shoot a coyote when you are on a 4 wheeler. It’s not easy. With my 300 ultra mag I could hit a coyote at 200 plus yards with one shot, sure. But that is in a deer stand with my rifle braced properly and my breathing calm. At that range when your heart beats the crosshairs on your scope jumps with your heartbeat. The average coyote is small. They aren’t the size of a St. Bernard, so imagine a border collie. Jogging. Coyotes rarely stop moving in the open unless they… Read more »

Noway2016
Noway2016

David, since I own a few guns, too, I’ll give you my answer, we’ll wait for Eiger’s. I like guns. My Dad taught me since I was about 7. I was roaming around our farm by the time I was 10 with a Colt Woodsman .22 on my hip. The holster was about as long as my leg! During hunting season once, I shot a squirrel out of the top of a tall pine tree once with that damn pistol. Lucky shot, I know, but at the time I thought I was the s**t, pistol wise. I have a Model… Read more »

Sally Forth
Sally Forth

Before we can find a path forward, we must first face a few inconvenient points: (1) Devout Muslims follow Sharia law; for example, Islamic folks at Brannon Hill in DeKalb say they will not even take out mortgages to buy their condos because Sharia forbids taking debt. (2) Under Sharia law, homosexuality is a crime punishable by death/execution. (3) The Orlando shooter had been to Afghanistan and participated in ISIL operations in the Middle East; his friend who went with him became a suicide bomber over there. (3) Omar Marteen was the son of a Taliban supporter and self-proclaimed official… Read more »

Noway2016
Noway2016

+1 Sally. Well said!

Saltycracker
Saltycracker

+Sally. I don’t have a real issue with more restrictions on assault rifles but I do on leaders that think it is a hate crime to have an immigration plan or a workable, enforceable process for terrorist profiles. Love thy neighbor, but cut the cards.

Would rather have Trumps fingers with the code in a room full of advisors than Hillarys with the code in her personal server box.

Sally Forth
Sally Forth

Thanks, guys – I was just trying to get this into perspective. And based on today’s news, I guess we need to add his wife as an accomplice and accessory before the fact. She helped him buy the guns and ammunition, went with him to scope out the club and other potential targets, etc. She is also an ISIL/ISIS jihadist, part of the war on America, who should be arrested and prosecuted, preferably under military law. And what about family and friends who knew full well what he was doing, saying, planning? They should be hauled in as accessories before… Read more »