DACA Students File a Lawsuit Demanding In-State Tuition
In the latest attempt to allow certain illegal immigrants to attend one of Georgia’s college and universities and pay in-state tuition, two Georgia Perimeter College students have filed a federal lawsuit against the Board of Regents and many of the University System College presidents. The suit claims that the students have had their rights violated under the 14th amendment to the U.S. Constitution, and that the Constitution’s supremacy clause, which states that federal law is the supreme law of the land.
Lorena Guillen and Karla Lopez are students paying out of state tuition at Georgia Perimeter College. Both are participating in the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program instituted by President Obama that allows certain undocumented immigrants who were brought to the U.S. as children to obtain work permits and driver’s licenses. While they are classified as having a lawful presence in the country under DACA, these students are not considered lawfully present by the Board of Regents.
The lawsuit asks the court to issue an injunction against charging DACA students from Georgia as out of state residents, restitution of tuition and fees paid over and above the in-state tuition rate, and compensatory damages.
In February, the Georgia Supreme Court rejected a separate lawsuit seeking in-state tuition for undocumented students. The court did not address the merits of the case, however, saying that the Board of Regents had sovereign immunity from a suit. This latest suit against the Board of Regents and college presidents addresses them individually as well as part of the Board, which the Supreme Court indicated might pass muster.
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Jon Richards
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Do you think in any country in the world they would grant in state tuition to a non citizen of the country let alone not even being from the state? First, would this not force schools to get rid of out of state tuition, if a non citizen of our country gets this, why not a foreign student with a proper visa or a US citizen from another state? Since public schools are subsidized by the government who pays the shortfall in revenue via cheaper tuition? We need to put in real discipline with budgets before making rash financial decisions on the tax payers dime, based on they feel about an issue. We have to many politicians from the left and right, pushing an agenda from this, RFRA…..they made be good politics to fire up their base, but bad for the tax payers pocket book. I have been attacked from the right and left for making this point numerous times.
there also needs to be a distinction, albeit a fine one perhaps, between citizenship status and “residency”. my guess is that, although i may be wrong, is that the folks seeking in-state tuition actually reside in-state. so the argument is basically that in the context of tuition, at least, residency raises concerns of equitable treatment, regardless of citizenship status. foreign students could not be considered true residents, as residency requires an intent to permanently reside, and visas with time limits preclude that. on the other hand, these individuals have an intent to reside here permanently, the question is just whether they will be allowed to under federal law.
…….these individuals have an intent to reside here permanently…..
Anyone can claim intent?
You think every kid no matter where they live should get in state tuition anywhere?
Who pays for it? We are talking about an extra 20k per year, per student.
If you get 20k less per student you have to make up the difference some how? If it is cuts that propose the cuts or we tax payers will have to pay. Not anymore complicated.
What if there was a really good football player who was a Dreamer? Would you offer him/her a scholarship?
All based on revenue, if the program could justify the cost of scholarships based on net revenue, I have no issue. But if the cost is put on tax payers no way.
“According Georgia’s Budget and Policy Institute, the state loses approximately $10 million in lost tax revenue, annually, when excluding some immigrant students from the same in-state tuition rates as in-resident Georgians.
“The state can add an estimated $10 million per year to state and local coffers through a more skilled, higher earning workforce if it allows Georgians to pay in-state tuition at any public college or university if they are eligible to work without threat of deportation,” the report noted, which was released in August.”
http://www.latinpost.com/articles/88078/20151019/immigration-news-2015-georgia-daca-recipients-continue-fight-state-college.htm
Do you dispute this?
Illogical math, if you educate the same amount of students you just added the extra cost on every kid you do not get the proper tuition. If you educate more students, with less revenue you just created a larger shortfall.
Andrew,
Who pays for it? You and Josh McKoon are big on spending tax payers money without a real plan!
…..I think it’s only fair…….
Ideologues like you and Josh need to think about economic impact.
The difference per student is almost 20 thousand dollars. Once again who pays the 20k per student? I was just as tough on Josh via his RFRA bill.
Georgia Resident
Tuition and Fees $11,622 vs. out of state $29,832
Andrew,
The reason we are 2 trillion in student loan liabilities with massive default rates, 70 percent of lending guaranteed by tax payers, Medicare Part D bill that will BK our country, No Child Left behind that shifted school funding toward administrative overhead and testing companies, verse the classrooms, endless war in the Middle East post Iraq at 2 trillion, I could go on and on…but at the end both parties have put us 21 trillion in the red, not including lending liabilities and future entitlement cost, because all of this was done by people thinking they were doing the right on tax payers dime. All I am asking for is accountability of how we pay for things before we get into ideology. What am I missing?
……….So your assumption that it costs an extra $20,000 for UGA to educate a student ………
It is not my assumption, it cost about 20k extra a year per student for your plan based on UGA tuition. It is fairly simple math, everyone of the students we would get 20k less in tuition. That revenue would have to be made up by a plan, what is your plan? Yes, I am lumping yoyu in with Sen McKoon, I have asked him the same type of question numerous times on this blog. Would Sen. McKoon guarantee with his own money any economic impact via jobs, tax revenue and loss of business revenue if RFRA became law?
………balancing out the cost, then raise tuition rates……
You propose to increase tuition even more while student debt is getting out of control via the cost of college?
You just made my point, like Josh Mckoon you support what you feel is right with no regard to the expense to tax payers. Now we know why are country is so far in the red.
Never mind ACP. He’s too busy grinding axes to be able to read clearly.
As an undocumented judge, on in state tuition to fellow undocumenteds, I rule NO.
So they can go through all the procedures of filling a lawsuit and the legal processes related to that but they can’t file to become a citizen? lol give me a break
Let’s say UGA is 80% in-state and 20% out of state. Granting these kids in-state doesn’t mean UGA will suddenly have to go to 90% in-state. It just means these kids will have to compete for whatever in-state slots are available. It doesn’t change the revenue at all. Have I got something wrong?
Now, you are suggesting taking slots away from American citizens, and replace them with illegal immigrants?
Holy cow John. What is your problem?!
Your conclusion jumping is EPIC. Seriously EPIC. Take a breather dude.
Lea,
In all due respect Andrew and B do not deny my “conclusion jumping” it is basic math. They both agree that the choice would be either raise rates, and or eliminate spots from Georgia legal citizens. Really it is basic story problem in math. I am sorry do I need to help you with the math?
FROM ANDREW:
………balancing out the cost, then raise tuition rates……
FROM B
…Let’s say UGA is 80% in-state and 20% out of state…..
Neither of them appear to have said any such thing…
Going to go ahead and throw my hands up on this one. I respect you and your insight but man do you go off the rails very quickly. I’m done.
There may be arguments for not granting this request, but I don’t think economics is one of them.
Thanks for the clarification. Still, I don’t think the university changes their in-state/out of state mix because of this. Maybe there is a one-time small change because of a late change in status, but long-term the revenue is the same.
…..you’re talking about making in-state tuition available to 4% of the student body, at most……….
The point is clear it is 20k less revenue per student, the two suggestions were raise tuition for students who cannot afford it now, or give away spots to illegal immigrants over legal Georgia citizens. The reason I am making this point is both sides make decisions on what they feel without thinking about how it effects the tax payers. I have made this point on a local, state and national level for years.
You can see this I have been consistent on this from RFRA, Charter Schools, Recycling Plants……
…..This is a terrible deal for taxpayers. You should NOT support forcing taxpayers to capitalize private companies or give them no-obligation government contracts. As a public school board member, your duty is to protect the school’s assets, not look for creative ways to squander them.
The taxpayers of Cherokee County have already been burned with similar deals. For example, we may lose $50 million that went to fund a private recycler that went bust (leaving taxpayers again holding the bag). As you well know, taxpayers across the country have already lost massive amounts of money in poorly structured charter schools deals. For the record, I support charter schools and believe they play an important and positive role in our education system. What I do not support is officeholders like you that make foolish and emotional decisions with taxpayer money……
http://georgiaschoolwatch.com/2012/09/10/john-konop-and-how-the-charter-school-amendment-fails-to-protect-tax-payers/
I am really only arguing the financial aspect of it. People may have emotional problems with their legal status, but that is a different argument.
So in 2017 UGA accepts 213 more students from out of state than it did this year (and 213 less from in-state). Money recovered. Then they can go back to their normal numbers in 2018.
What you are saying is tax eat close to 500k last year just at UGA, and 213 legal Georgia residence no longer qualify for in state tuition at UGA, because their spot was taking way by an illegal immigrant? And this policy would multiply in expense and or Georgia legal students not qualifying for in state tuition by every college in Georgia?
You are in campaign mode aren’t you. Are you going to run against McKoon?
LOL….I have said the same thing for years as you know, no matter what side.
Andrew,
As you know I like you, but it seems obvious you have never ran a business. I have led numerous turn around in the business world, and when interviewed about it, I made it clear it is never a silver bullet. It is combination of implementing numerous disciplines that add up to successful business strategy. When you take over a company in the red, it is culture that bleeds through a company that their area does not need the fiscal help because it is not that much. But when you add all the not that much it is a lot. In the attacks I got about the Charter school issue, I heard the argument.
Ironic a person defending my point about Charter Schools. This is the problem both sides always use the same debate point when they get caught pushing policy they want without taking into consideration the cost left at tax payers hands.
………And then you go off on an unrelated tangent to discuss expenses of Cherokee County re. 2 secretaries and central office personnel, and DeKalb County’s fiscal problems. But you still haven’t discussed the point that John Konop brings up about taxpayers’ money being paid to a private company, without any oversight or penalties for failure……
You are pushing an agenda that you ideologically support, yet are willing to put the extra expanses on tax payers and or willing to give up in state tuition spaces to illegal immigrants over legal Georgia citizens. I support the dreamer act, but it cannot be used to squeeze out Americans and or create extra expenses on tax payers.
……..1) As I said before, there are not “in state tuition spaces.” There’s no in-state quota for UGA or, as far as I know, any other state university…….
Obviously you have never put a budget together, at 20k difference per student a year, logic would tell you they only have so many slots.
…….2) No one is losing a space to an “illegal immigrant” because these students have already applied to, and been admitted to, a public college or university…….
If they are current students we lost 20k per student based on UGA fee structure for every student, if we do it in the future they either take slots or money.
……3) Allowing these kids to apply for in-state tuition is no different then allowing a student from North Carolina to apply for in-state tuition….
Not getting your point? You get the difference between being here legally and not?
….4) UGA only gets 27.4% of its operating budget from the state. Allowing <4% of the student population to apply for in-state tuition is not going to throw their budget off to the point they'll need taxpayer assistance…
Obviously if this is a shortfall of 500k at UGA, if you consider all the collages in our state this a material amount of tax payer money? You understand that UGA only educates a small percentage of all the students in Georgia?
…….5) For the love of all things holy, John, you have no clue what you're talking about and your unrelated tangents about Cherokee County, charter schools, RFRA, and public parks just makes you seem unhinged…
I heard the same argument from people who supported blind investment of tax payer money into ill thought out solar ( Solyndra), go fish project, recycling in Cherokee, BK charter schools…. I actually support recycling, alternative energy, charter schools…..but I do not support ill thought-out plans that leave tax payers holding the bag. I am guilty as charged of protecting tax payers over ideology. I have said numerous times in public, before we debate the ideology it must pass the fiscal test first.Like me or not I have called out both sides on this BS…
Style or not, I was right about the last economic collapse via the economy being over-leverage with government backed loans , No Child Left behind, policemen of the world foreign policy and Medicare Part D being a bad bill. The truth is not what people want to hear all the time…. I am right about this, or you would not resort to cheap shots.
….1) As I said before, there are not “in state tuition spaces.” There’s no in-state quota for UGA or, as far as I know, any other state university…..
Obviously the budget is based on this via a difference of 20k per student in tuition rate. Which translate into X amount of in state tuition slots. Obviously the state makes more money with out of state students.
….2) No one is losing a space to an “illegal immigrant” because these students have already applied to, and been admitted to, a public college or university……
Read above ie budget issues or slot issue…
3) Allowing these kids to apply for in-state tuition is no different then allowing a student from North Carolina to apply for in-state tuition.
Read above ie budget issues….
4) UGA only gets 27.4% of its operating budget from the state. Allowing <4% of the student population to apply for in-state tuition is not going to throw their budget off to the point they'll need taxpayer assistance.
Same excuse you hear from every bureaucrat, and that mind set is why tuition cost is out of control.
5) For the love of all things holy, John, you have no clue what you're talking about and your unrelated tangents about Cherokee County, charter schools, RFRA, and public parks just makes you seem unhinged.
That mind set is why we are 21 trillion in the red, or counties do not have enough money for projects like needed infrastructure, state employee medical pensions way out of reserve, tuition rate for college out of control, School spending k-12 highest in the world, without the results, I could go on and on…..
If you are worried about any possible budget implications then perhaps you could support accepting them but deferring their admittance until next year, when they would just be in the pool of in-state students from the start instead of changing their status after they’ve been accepted.
B,
You and I have been friends for awhile, and trust me, my wife and I treat our own money the same way with our family.
Come on John. If these kids are just part of the regular pool of applicants, then this is not a financial issue, right? The money would be exactly the same. The schools wouldn’t be taking any more or less students either from in-state or out of state.
I could see how it might possibly cost a small amount more if they get in-state <this year, but even that would be easily rectified next year. Companies do this sort of thing all the time, as I am sure you know. Unexpected expenses sometimes occur but they are usually easily dealt with going forward. But for the sake of argument let’s just say defer admission for a year and then there is absolutely no financial change, right?
I think it would create between a 10 to 20mm shortfall a year if it did effect the number of in state tuition in the budget. . Someone should run the numbers…
I am trying to get you to admit that this isn’t really about finances. If DACA kids are just in the pool of applicants, it doesn’t change anything financially. You have hinted at this by deflecting to other concerns before, but we should be clear: There are no financial repercussions to this. If anyone wants to argue other aspects of their case, fine, we can have that discussion, but perhaps this one is done?
…I am trying to get you to admit that this isn’t really about finances..
I only speak for myself it is all about the math…..
Give me some math.
If DACA kids are just part of the resident pool of applicants, how does that cost more money?
They either take away slots for legal Georgia citizens or 20k extra per student per year.
Andrew,
College cost is out of control you are moving in the wrong direction with extra cost.
I do give up. I wouldn’t mind discussing the non-financial aspects of their admittance though. Oh well.